(no subject)

[pictor]

I have never put snow tires on my car, ever since I've been driving my car. I've never felt a need, and I have always harboured a suspicion as their merit, though many would praise them. They are certainly better for traction in snow, but they can actually be worse for traction on ice, so is it a gain? Yes, it probably is, we deal with way more snow and slush than we do sheet ice on the road (especially after the salt trucks have been through).

[Poll #1291425]

Comments

[larmer.livejournal.com]

I have not bought Winter Tires (versus Snow Tires) due to money issues. Still I think they are the right thing for a car in a Canadian Winter. I guess I am being hypocritical.

Where did you learn that they were worst on ice than all seasons?

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

Snow tires have larger grooves, and ultimately, less tire actually touching the road. On ice, where the advantage of the groove for channeling snow and slush goes away, what you are left with is less road contact, less friction, less grip. I am talking sheet ice here, smooth, and hard enough that it's not breaking up under the tire. In that situation, you will get the best control from as much contact as possible.

Snow tires excel because snow gets driven up into the groove, improving your chance of finding pavement with the rubber, or else being able to grip the snow with more surface area once you are allowed to add in the surface area inside the groove.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

Yes, but. That is the argument I've always made.

I've done reading that suggests the different compounds used in winter tires actually do give better traction on ice. Also that the edges of the grooves (and something called sipes) can give a grab/cut (like edge of skate, kind of) grip that is not just simple friction math.

(Also, IIRC friction, in at least the simple case, is independent of the surface area. It is based on force * area * coefficient of friction, but force is based on weight/area, so the area on top & bottom cancel out.)

[larmer.livejournal.com]

dagibbs, see my post on my LJ with sources agreeing with what you are saying.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

My understanding is that they're also supposed to be better on ice. Dunno for sure.

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

see comment above.

[kattale.livejournal.com]

I've always had all-seasons. The few years I had my tiny all-wheel-drive RAV4 was the best ever - what a world of difference for driving in snow - especially up and down hills - we would drive as if on a normal dry street, while cars all around us were spinning tires and sliding back down the hill... that was still with all-seasons.

Now that I have my big heavy mini-van - arg. It slips and slides all over. Last year we couldn't afford winter tires, so I just avoided driving in bad weather - I have a lifestyle where I can do that. This year - client depending - I am absolutely getting winter tires. The RAV4 spoiled me, and I hate going back to no traction. :(

Ice - the answer is - drive painfully slowly. You'll get there. If you can't go slow, stay home. Lives aren't worth whatever you're in a hurry for.

[xiphia.livejournal.com]

I didn't bother with winter tires on the explorer (4x4 truck), but I consider them a necessity on the protege (small car).

[sharikkamur.livejournal.com]

I've currently got all-seasons but they're getting a bit on the old side so I was thinking about changing them this winter. Now that I'm planning to move out of town I'm definitely going to have to replace them but with studdies instead of a new set of all-weathers. The new house is up a hill and sometimes it gets a bit icy up there.

[henrytroup.livejournal.com]

Where do you live that studded tires are legal? Not where Mike and I do, in legally defined Southern Ontario.

[ms-dionysos.livejournal.com]

I'm a faithful believer in snow/ice tires. Even wih looking for an AWD vehicle, I'll still fork out the money for tires that may buy me that extra split second of traction control.

That said, I have snow tires for sale from the car I'm trading in! If anyone might be interested, check out http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/pts/883326459.html :)

Re: Winter tires on Ice

[the-big-cat.livejournal.com]

Winter tires are significantly better on ice than all season tires are. Ultimately it has nothing to do with the tread pattern, and everything to do with the rubber compound used (and in some cases other materials added to the rubber to get more traction.) Snow tires use a compound designed to grip ice and handle cold weather, but which can't handle summer driving temperatures. All season tires use a rubber compound which is designed to handle summer driving temperatures and have longer wear characteristics, but can't grip ice and snow very well.

If you're still not convinced, watch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfvyPtYR0Y) these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Is7xWXxHpI) videos. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ObVLNHk-i4)

Re: Winter tires on Ice

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

The middle video is the only one that showed me anything new, I wasn't previously aware of the different rubber compounds itself in the tire. I had been told about the issues of winter tires on ice by driving professionals, during my driver's ed. course for one, although that was many years ago now. The materials have advanced a fair bit it would seem.

Re: Winter tires on Ice

[the-big-cat.livejournal.com]

Anything someone told you about winter tires from 10+ years ago has nothing to do with current tire technology. There has been a real push in the past decade by the government to require tire manufacturers to provide proof that their winter tires actually do something (they used to just throw a logo on their tires, but now they have to pass various tests to get the logo.)

I'd like to see Ontario go the same way as Quebec has with mandatory winter tires after Nov 15th.

always, but

[henrytroup.livejournal.com]

I started using winter tires after finding myself going sideways down Fallowfield Road with nice new all-seasons -- and oncoming traffic. It's an experience I'd rather have passed up on.

But I live in a semi-rural area and drive a lot in winter. At the same time, if you're traveling for SCA, you can't pick your conditions. Get the winter tires. Check ratings, too.